03/17/2026 06:37:21 PMarticleThe interview was conducted by UNT graduate students Tim (Tianrong) Lin, Hayden Ridings, and Sean (Xu) Tan. It has been edited for length and clarity. All photos are courtesy of Sandi Holzgraefe. Sandi Holzgraefe: Hi! It's nice to finally meet you. How are you doing?  Hayden Ridings: I'm doing well. We just got off of spring break, so I'm getting back into the swing of things. SH: Yeah—crazy spring break! I mean, we had great weather, and then last night, it was freezing. HR: I'm from Texas, but my roommates are not, and so they have been having a very interesting experience with Texas springs—they're like, this doesn't make any sense! SH: Yeah, it's been crazy. We had to cover all kinds of things. And, really, I thought we were done with this! HR: Are you living in the DFW area?  SH: Yes, we live right now near White Rock Lake—so, Lakewood. It's a really nice area. But I'm a UNT grad.  HR: That was the one thing I found out—because we were supposed to do a little bit of research on y'all—and the one thing that I found was that you went to UNT. What did you study? SH: Radio, Television, and Film. I was in the documentary film part of it, and loved it. I had a great time up there, getting my masters. I tried to unravel those little-known stories, especially of minorities, women in particular. So, it's good! I had a good time. HR: We’re just trying to wait for a couple of the other people…. SH: Hi, Tim, nice to meet you, too! So I've got Hayden and Tim. Tim, where are you? Are you on the UNT campus? Tim (Tianrong) Lin: I am. Were you just saying you did documentary film work? Did you work in the industry, or was it scholarly work?  SH: I started my own production company, and that worked for a while, but it’s hard to find funding. I did a few projects. I like to collaborate, and I used to work with Walter Deed—he was the editing person in the Radio, Television and Film department. He's since passed, but he was such a great mentor, and I miss him…  Here’s another person now. Sean (Xu) Tan: Good afternoon. My name is Sean. I come from China, with some background in Chinese philosophy. What you are doing is amazing and quite inspiring for me, so I'm here to learn from your experience. TL: I can officially start the interview. I’m Tim Lin, and here with me are Hayden and Sean, and this is an interview with Sandi. We are taking a class at UNT in the philosophy department called religion and ecology, where we’re thinking about animal and ecological ethics through East Asian and South Asian philosophical and religious perspectives. This interview is a part of the Jain studies program here at UNT, which Professor Leah Kalmanson is head of, and it's part of the Bhagwan Adinath Animal Humanities Initiative, where we conduct oral histories to document the local work of animal rescue and rehabilitation. So, it's very nice to have you here with us today. SH: Thank you. This is such a wonderful program. I'm excited. TL: I'm going to start briefly with a broader, more general question, just to get us started. If you could, tell us a little bit about yourself, how long you've lived in this area, and if there's anything else you'd like to share about your background. SH: Well, I've lived in this DFW area about 45 years, and my husband and I have been fortunate enough to live in areas with an abundance of wildlife. In the 1980s we moved to Southlake, which was very rural. In fact, I think you could only buy an acre. You couldn't get anything smaller. It was very rural. And we had everything there. We had deer and raccoons and foxes, lots of waterfowl, because we lived near Lake Grapevine. So we had pelicans, road runners. We had a group—or a flock, I guess, as you say—of guinea hens descend on property one year. And I never knew what guinea hens were, and I found out through a Google search which included a lot of recipes for guinea hens!  They're very much like the watchdogs of your property. They screech up a storm when you enter their property, and it's like an alarm. It's like before alarms went off, you got a guinea hen—and we had a flock! But in our area, there were a lot of predators, so not a lot [of the hens] survived. But we had one guinea hen that we kind of took to our heart, because we named him Chemo. And the reason we named him Chemo was—I don't know if you've ever seen a guinea hen, but they have these little stalks of feathers, like little hairs on the top of their head. And that's what he looked like—he looked like a bird on chemo. But he was a survivor.  He would roost at night on our windowsill, and that protected him. And then in the morning, he would come down on the patio, see his reflection on our patio window—he loved to see his reflection—and he greeted me every morning. So, we just kind of befriended him. He became a part of our family. Oh, people would come to our house, and we'd say, yeah, that's Chemo. And then one day, he didn't come back. So that was what happened in our area. We just had things come and go. But it was pretty special. Holzgraefe with Joel Sartore. And then I got involved in the rescue work, oh, kind of through the years, I guess, because I was nurtured by all this wildlife. My husband and I were friends of the Dallas Zoo, and we got to meet Joel Sartore. He is a National Geographic photographer, and his mission has been to capture portrait photographs of all species in the Photo Ark, especially endangered species.  *Editor’s note: The Photo Ark documents the over 25,000 animal species housed in zoos and sanctuaries worldwide. Sartore founded the project in 2006 in collaboration with National Geographic. We really enjoyed meeting with him and talking to him. So, we invested in helping him photo capture two wildcats, which I'm particularly fascinated with. Joel has almost gotten all of the small wildcat species in the Photo Ark. The Scottish wildcat was one that he had wanted to get, and we helped him in getting that. That was about 2018. On site with Sartore. And then a year later, he went to South America and captured the güiña. Not many people know the güiña. It's a small wildcat, very endangered, and Sartore was one of the, if not the first, to capture the audio sounds of the güiña. Or, it's sometimes called the kodkod. And it was his 10,000th species for the Photo Arc. So I really embrace that passion that he has for bringing this to life, because he was so ahead of his time in saying, “This is what we have. Let's preserve it.” And his photographs have been all over the world—on the Vatican, on the Empire State Building, everywhere—so people can see, face to face, these amazing portraits. And they're up close. He wants you to see them eye to eye. He wants you to care about them. He wants you to save them. And I embraced that. So that's how I got involved in wildlife, and then I started doing the hotline and training for it TL: Thank you. Cool. I'm unfamiliar with this kind of work. Broadly speaking, what kind of work is involved in volunteering for a hotline? SH: Well, you go through training. You do a lot of your own research, But the founder of the DFW Wildlife Hotline supplies you with a lot of information. I'm a research-aholic, so I go the extra mile. So, you know, I get some strange calls, and so I'm always searching to try to find a better solution.  It's a process. You get the basics of the training through [the hotline founder] Prudi [Koeninger], and then, just through the calls, you get to go, “Oh, what do we have in the area that will help with this? Who can help with this?” You get a connection and a network of people that you can call on with questions. If I can't find anything else, I can get information from them.  TL: Thinking of the kinds of calls you get, is there a particularly memorable case or an example? SH: I have had so many! Every time I get off the hotline, I recount to anybody. I mean, they're probably sick of me telling these stories! But I just I revel in the interaction I have with the callers.  One in particular was a couple, an elderly couple, that lived out in KaufmanCounty. I don't know if you're familiar with the Dallas Fort Worth area, but it's South Dallas, very rural, very country. Most people own property, and this elderly couple had found an injured great horned owl on their property. Probably a broken wing, I'm assuming.  But, it's always tricky when you get a raptor call, because traditionally, we have small mammals, small birds, and we can teach people how to contain them safely and then get them to a rehabber. Raptors are different. You really don't want to jeopardize someone's safety.  So, this elderly couple had found this great horned owl, and I told them, “Hang tight.” Blackland Prairie Raptor Center out in Lucas is a great rehab center, and they're so friendly, and so accommodating. They have a network of transporters that will come and help contain a bird and get it to their rehab. So, I told this elderly couple, “Hang tight,” you know, “Just keep an eye on it.” They weren't having anything to do with this! They got on their tractor, and the woman had the cell phone [on video call] the whole time, so I'm going along with them as they're doing this. They go out to the pasture where the bird is, and I can see it, and she's telling her husband what to do. And they have a great big plastic container with them. Lo and behold, they capture that bird, you know, slip the cover under it, put it on their tractor, and head back to their house, and then Blackland Prairie picked it up. But it was like—well, they were determined. They were going to do this. And I felt good about it. And every time I see that video, I kind of chuckle and smile, because some people just, you know—they're gonna do it. But I get so many memorable calls, I could literally talk your ears off for hours. HR: This follows from your story about the kinds of this people who are putting themselves in harm's way to take care of animals. I think sometimes we have this concern that we might be doing the wrong thing when intervening with animals. It seems like you might have to deal with a lot of scenarios where you're having to counsel someone on whether intervention is really needed. Can you share a little bit about that, and what kind of things you do to kind of talk people through some of that stuff, and moreover, perhaps related to this experience that you've had, the ways in which people are kind of willing to get in and try to intervene in situations. SH: Good question. Sometimes it's all about counseling the individual as well as it is helping the animal. I had a caller very early on in my experience working for the hotline, who was out on a nature trail with her daughter and found an injured animal, and her daughter had a panic attack. And I remember having to walk them through the process of trying to help the animal, but at the same time, I was also very patient with trying to calm them down to get them to do the right thing. And sometimes that's what you need to do—you need to counsel the caller, as well as walking them through the steps to take care of the animal.  A lot of times it's not just getting the animal and taking it to a rehab center, but it's also reuniting it with its parents, especially birds that get thrown out of nests, squirrels that fall from the trees. We had this huge wind storm the other night, and all I could think of was all the baby birds and squirrels that probably fell out of the trees. [In those circumstances] you want to try to re-nest. You want to encourage the mothers to take control with a little help. And that's hard because, it requires a lot more patience and time on the part of the person that found the animals.  For instance, baby birds—we have the baby bird sounds you download on your iPhone and you put into the makeshift nest. Same with the squirrels—we have the squirrel sounds, and that helps, but you have to keep an eye on them. You have to watch out for dogs and cats in the neighborhood, or hawks. And it’s a fine line of trying to encourage the caller to do the right thing, and then sometimes it doesn't work out. They get frustrated, and they just want you to fix it, which is frustrating for me—because, you know, you took the time to call me to find out the process, and then you shut me down. But most of the time, it's a good outcome, because most of the time people are very caring and they really want to help the animal…. But it's a fine line.  TL: I guess the flip side of that question, about all these challenges to navigate, is what you would consider the most rewarding aspect of this work? SH: Yeah, I mean, when it works, it's a high. It really is. I mean, you've saved an animal. To me, that's priceless, you know. And sometimes it doesn't work out, and all you can do is help the caller.  I'll relay another story where I had a woman that called crying, very emotional. She had found an animal that was covered in ants, clearly suffering, and she was distraught, so she rinsed the ants off of the animal. I forget what animal it was. I think it was a bird. And she wanted to take it to a vet to be euthanized. And I supported that. I said, “Yes, go.” And she just kept wanting to know, reassurance-wise, that she's doing the right thing. And that's often all people want to know. They want to know they're doing the right thing. But it's emotional. It's draining, in a way, because you're seeing something suffering or something in need. And if you have an empathetic heart, like I do…. I realized that what I need to do is reassure the caller that they're doing the right thing, that what they're doing is either reuniting the animal, taking it to a rehab, or alleviating its suffering. TL: What would you what advice would you give for those who want to participate in this type of work? What are the kind of skills that you think are necessary to contribute to this? SH: Be a good listener. You want to be able to listen to what's happened, Like I said before, so many people just want you to come and fix it. For instance, another story—coyotes. People see a coyote in their yard. They get very distressed. They have small kids. They have pets. They want your help. They want you to come and take the coyote away. You have to take a deep breath. You have to say, “Okay, this is what we do.” And you have to walk them through the techniques to get [the coyotes] to stay their distance. And you have to give [the people] precautions. But the end result is that we're having to live in the same neighborhood. We're having to coexist. So you're having to walk them off the ledge a little bit and say, “We're all living in this neighborhood. [The coyotes] are going to stay here.”  And of course, studies have shown, displacing them is not the right way. If you do that, they just produce more. So we have to learn tips to get along. We're all living in this space, and if we're careful, we can coexist. I clearly understand the need for small children and pets not getting harmed, but people also need to realize, you know, we're taking the land from the coyotes. We're inhabiting where they live. So, it's a fine line, and people that volunteer have to understand that. They have to kind of walk people through the process, because [a caller’s] gut instinct, their natural instinct, is to just get rid of it—you know, come and fix it, take it away. And we know that doesn't work, so it's listening and patience that are good skills to have if you're a volunteer. ST: I’m going to jump in here. In relation to this, I have a personal question. I have a 10-year-old daughter, and she's obsessed with little animals. Her favorite animal is a bunny. She loves bunnies so much. I want to know, do you have some advice, or some words, that I can tell my daughter, to encourage her, or maybe her friends, to take part in these kinds of activities? SH: Bunnies are particularly interesting. We're really into bunny season right now at the hotline. I have to tell the callers, when they have a bunny issue, that the mom bunny doesn't stay with a nest, she only comes back at dawn and dusk to feed. And they feed a lot—you can turn a little baby bunny over, and you see a little milk stomach, and you know the mom's been there. But she only comes at dawn and dusk because she carries the scent for predators. The baby bunnies don't. So we first have to counsel the people who say the mom's not there, and the babies have been abandoned. And then we teach them how to test if the mom bunny will come back. You can put dental floss or string over the nest, and if it's moved after dawn or dusk, then she's come back to feed them. And of course, you can turn the baby bunny over, and if you can see their little tummy, then they're well fed. [In that case] leave them alone. They’re okay.  Sometimes the nests are not in the best areas, but you can't move the nest. The mom won't find them if you move the nest. Also, if a cat or dog captures a bunny, you have to get it to a rehab, because dogs and cats carry a lot of bacteria in their mouths. It doesn't matter if you do it with your bare hands—that old wives’ tale is wrong. Your scent on baby birds, or rabbits, or squirrels [is fine], and the mom will still take the baby. So, if you can just put them back in the nest, they'll be fine…. Sometimes I say, to put a laundry basket with holes over the nest, and a rock on the top so maybe the dog can't knock it over, to have the mom still come back and feed the babies and then leave. But she doesn't stay with the babies, and that's something everybody needs to know—they’re not abandoned; the mom knows where they are. So each each animal is a little bit different, but all very special. ST: I knew some friends in China who attend activities to rescue animals. Maybe their motivation or motive is just out of empathy. What’s your own motivation? SH: That’s a good question. I have been told I have an overdose of empathy, that empathy gene is just rampant in my house. But, you know, I think anybody can care. And I learned this from Joel Sartore—again, his whole motivation with the Photo Ark was with these portraits. They’re eye to eye and every animal is the same dimension, so even a tiny insect gets the same amount of space as an elephant or a lion. He gives them that presence in his photographs. And it's the eye-to-eye contact that he gets. He wants you to see them eye to eye, because if you care, you will want to save them. And that's his whole motto with a Photo Ark—that what you see, you will care about. And he presents these photos that are miraculous in their staging—of even the most awful looking [animals] on the planet! And it makes sense to me, that if you care, you will want to save these animals. *Editor’s note: The conversation turns briefly to Joel Sartore’s TEDx Talk, which can be viewed here. TL: What you bring up about empathy relates to the story of the Jain king that has inspired this project. We would very much enjoy hearing what thoughts you have on some of these larger issues and dilemmas you have faced. SH: Yeah, I read that story when I first got the email, and that's a tough one. It is a non-compromising story, isn't it? And I struggle with that. It's like watching a nature show, and it's all about the gazelles, and you're rooting for the gazelle against the lions pursuing it, and that's what you watch. And then you see a show on the lions, maybe a lioness with baby cubs, and you're rooting for the lioness to kill the gazelle to feed the cubs.  One season I had some cardinals that were building a nest right in front of my kitchen window. And it was not a very secure nest, because it was in a nandina bush, but they that's where they wanted to go, and they built the nest. I watched the mom and dad come build the nest. I watched the mom lay the eggs. I saw the baby eggs hatch, so excited—to see the little beaks come up, wanting for food, both the mom and dad coming to feed them. And then I got up one morning and my husband said, “They're gone.” A Cooper hawk swooped down. Within seconds, they were gone. I love Cooper hawks. I love raptors. But that's what they do. That's their instinct. And as hard as it is for me to come to grips with it—and I cry, I get sad—but it's the circle of life, it's the survival, it's the whole Darwin thing. I question it. But we can learn from nature so much, and I take it as a learning experience. I look at animals, and I want to learn from them—kind of like the Jane Goodall example. I just want to observe. I want to see how they function. I want to see what makes them tick. Because we're all very close to them; we’re not genetically that far away. I know that for the wildcats to survive, they live on rodents and things, but my heart goes out to them. I remember an episode [filmed by Joel Sartore] about the reintroduction of the lynx in Europe. The keepers were putting in a live rabbit—there we go, with our bunnies in the cage, because they had to teach [the lynxes] how to hunt. And I remember Joel filming this the whole time. You have to put this bunny in there. And does he know that he's going to his execution? It may be the way of the wild, so I have to accept that, but it is a struggle.  In China, they have the Chinese mountain cat, which Joel just got a couple years ago. The Chinese wildcat goes into the fields and catches the rodents that cause the damage to the crops. So, I think the Chinese people are realizing now that this is an animal they want to preserve. I remember researching that for Joel. It was a lot of work for him to get into China to take the [photos of the] Chinese mountain cat, but he did manage to go there and capture some images. It's a very elusive cat, like all wildcats are, but it's very important to the ecosystem, because they do serve a purpose.  And so I guess there is a purpose to that struggle, that we have in that [Jain] story. It's not an easy one, and it tugs at you.  It reminds me when I was doing my documentary work, and another person in the environmental studies program was working on how to teach ranchers how to contain their animals in a friendly way, instead of killing the coyotes that would come and take the sheep. And he was focusing on Pyrenees, the dogs that would actually protect the flocks and keep the coyotes away.  So a lot of the [problems with farming and wildlife worldwide] are manageable if you get the right combination of [non-lethal] protections. So in other words, the Pyrenees dogs and the ranchers. It's a win-win, and [it’s possible], which your studies are helping to promote. So I’m very appreciative of what UNT is doing in these environmental studies programs. And to get these documentaries out, which I'm fond of, and you let people know there's an alternative. There's a better way we can do it—we can manage it and still live with the wildlife.